This is a page for information on CA's IP-clean origional content fork, with the working title '1faction'. It can be found in the svn at trunk/mods/1faction and is a mutator.

1 Faction Tasks

Why one faction? It should be considered for gameplay and model reasons. The factions are still not that unique, and factory choice is far more important than faction choice in dictating tech tree, playstyle and options. One faction allows us to have more units, more land and start viable factories, while having each have a diverse and unique unit set as we do not need to worry so much about duplicating abilities for faction balance. While it is a considered design decision, the major reason is the massive reduction in art content that this entails.

Pros

• Dramatically cuts down on remodeling. Leaves us with a handful of units which need models.
• Removes double up units
• Fixes imbalances between similiar units
• Fleshed out factories/fixes factories that are lacking roles
• Allows more interesting unit types.
• Further distances CA from OTA

Cons

• Factions are needed to set up a binary opposition in the singleplayer storyline
• People expect an RTS to have a range of factions
• Model mismatch, at least to start with
• Loss of tech tree 'lock outs' IE, shields and cloakers, rather than shields or cloakers (Irrelevant for team games and with capture/res, though, and we may consider tech-upgrade buildings to unlock certain abilities, or factory/con-specific buildings).

Neddie: The downsides listed above are primarily social and logistical - the storyline can be written anew, the public reaction is merely a matter of condition, and functional diversity doesn't need to be lost - as evidenced below, most of the unique roles are going to be retained. I might have been initially resistant to this idea, but most of the downsides can be easily dealt with while the benefits are indeed great.

Per Factory Proposals

4 Bot Factory System

Jumpers:

• Raider, 80ish cost (beheAK model?)
• Pyro (jump)
• Jack (jump)
• Slow morty
• Skuttle (jump)
• AA (Jumpy Archangle model?)
• Sumo (jump)
• Jumpy Con (jump)

Spiders:

• Flea
• Another Raider (All terrain?)
• Recluse
• Thug weight AT Assault (Use BeheCrasher?)
• Venom
• Crabe
• Spy
• AA (Use 4 legged BeheAA)
• Spider Con

Spherebots (aka cloaky)

• Glaive
• Gremlin Style Raider (using smoth's unmade Zipper model?).
• Rocko
• Warrior
• Zues
• Hammer
• Sniper (change shot back to purple?)
• Jethro
• (Cloaky?) Con

Maackeybots (aka shieldy)

• Bandit
• AOE outlaw
• Shield Thud
• Rouge
• Clogger
• Roach
• Crasher
• (Cheap?) Con
• Dom

GoogleFrog?: This looks similar to the CA factory lineup with a few units moved around and added to fix glaring weaknesses of fatories. The 'light' factories also have more of a role. It points out that we have the models for CA 2fac bots and that we could add more differentiation.

This setup has almost an entire factory of jumpers and an entire factory of Spiders, this is a little strange. Though while they can both transverse rough terrain the units in the factories are completely different. There is a nice and manageable 9 units per factory.

The unresolved issue with this proposal is the stats and abilities of the undefined Spherebot Cloaky Raider and the extra Jumper and Spider Raider. The Spider and Jumper raider do not have to be conventional at all as the Pyro and Flea cover part of the raider role. The Jumper raider should be something reasonably cheap and fast (melee zipper?). The Spider raider will have to be able to attack light defence as the flea cannot at all and anti-raider duties can be partially filled by Venom as it is reasonably fast. To synergies well with Venom this raider would need enough range to keep out of emp aoe. (basically sak should go nuts and think up some abilities to use for these things).

Saktoth: Note this removes spherebots flex-AT, and stacks the AT heavily into two factories. I worry that so many, reliable AT units will lead to cliffs being meaningless in most games, and many maps feeling like cometcatcher (or maybe this isnt bad...). Jumpers are at least limited in that they take micro and cant go over really rough terrain (which is rare enough in maps anyway). However, we may want to consider making spiders not completely AT, if they become ubiquitous and flat-viable. With pyramids, we can make them only AT enough to climb terraform, meaning they dont go up all cliffs and/or throw in some slope mod so they dont zip up sheer vertical walls. This would take testing of course, to find a good range so that they are good enough, but not so that all maps are CCR (Say, perhaps they could climb most of the cliffs on tabula, but not the bertha dick).

Spy without sniper? Though these two havent been used together for a while, it would be nice if we could bring back, its one of the few neat things we lost from BA.

I am thinking a melee sperebot with a halberd, ~200 cost. Cloak works well with melee. You dont want to waste a good, original model on a unit you barely ever see, so i dunno about using a smoth.

Pyro is already quite good vs other raiders, ok vs defense and eats up bases. The only thing it cant do is scout and shut down naked expansion. Thus all you need is a flea-like unit, i am thinking a small low AoE (or even one-shot weapon) firebomb, since i really want to use that tag-with-fire ability and it doesnt seem to be working elsewhere, and it just makes sense on a bomb. Problem is, fire doesnt stack (so we'd have to fix this, IMO we should). Since pyro is so hard to use, this one should probably be fairly easy, and not jump With jump, it could leap into an LLT (esp if you have a couple), but jump would make it harder to use. The thing is, bombs are notoriously hard to use. There is the danger that this factory just becomes for pros only. This bomb would be a lot simpler, and capable of massing (since most of the damage will be in fire, and it, like pyro, will be immune to units-on-fire).

Google Frog: We have enough interesting Spiders or Jumpers for 2/3 of a factory each, in the case of the jumpers jumping is part of the unit role and with spiders those are what we have the models for. Spiders and Jumpers are slow and specialised, they don't have good artillery. You might find the odd map dominated by them (Altored Divide) but overall I think it will be fine.

Do we want to make all the units in Jumper jump? I was aiming for about half of them (no jumpy AA) so it is not quite so specialized as AT. What do we want to do with the other AT raider?

Regarding fire how should it work? Should we base it off the Spring TD flame behavaiour? Fire damage adds to on-fire-ness which does on-fire-ness damage per second. On-fire-ness reduces over time (could any rate, eg fixed or fractional).

Recent Changes

• Moved Janus to Hover properly
• Gave Shield to Thug
• Moved Penetrator to Hover
• Replace Mace with Mumbo stats
• Reenstated old Weasel weapon

Proposed Changes

Google Frog:

• Replace Outlaw Laser with slowdown beam
• Buff Hammer (increase range?)
• Move Pillager to Vehicle with reduced weight (not too sure about this one), pillager needs anti-unit nerf. Maybe just buff Wolverine with range so that there is no anti unit.
• Increase Thud and Storm Weight
• Keep penetrator in Tank. Tank arty can consist of pene, tremor and (EMP?) Merl.
• Move flea to AT (not sure about this)
• Move fire grenade to Gator. Weasel is reasonable when swarmed and Gator is too good with a normal weapon.
• Maybe differentiate gunship and fixed wing aircons? Gunship would be slower, heavier, more BP and fixed wing would be faster. We've got 2 aircon models so it's a reasonable idea.
• AoE Riot unit should have an on/off button. Once the enemy knows about them there is no reason to not constantly fire, fireing decloaks things. This would be annoying so maybe they need to cost energy to fire. An on/off button is still needed as decloak would be worthwhile.

Thoughts:
Vehicle is still a good all-round factory. It has a good number of interesting units (weasel, Slasher, Leveler sort of (AOE, impulse)).Pillager will just increase the problem. Gator nerf would reduce vehicle's effectiveness.
Slowdown gun does not slow reload, needs fixing.
Gremlin needs placing.
Hoverlab is interesting but a bit emty
There are too many bots, maybe make a 'tech centre' for cloakers? (spy, sniper, gremlin, mobile cloakers,unlocks cloaker for cons). Not sure if it would work well.
Shield could have a similar tech centre but it would only have shield bot
Limiting Shields and Cloakers to a normal lab will not achieve much:

• 1v1; shields or cloakers are too expensive let alone shield and cloaker
• Teamgame; techshare
• FFA; excessive income, make both factories.

Long range slow weapon?
Make a dedicated rezz unit?
Capture weaponry?
Sprint is an interesting ability, it could still be used on hover raider.

Saktoth:

• Dominator/Merl/Flail role to Maackeybot.
• Hover assault = egg (fixed for better use).
• Kodachi takes the weasel grenades, something a bit like old koda but better. To vech, goes with gator (How to make this interesting?).
• AK gets burst-charge guns (not traditional burst, scripted burst ala defender) or something else interesting.
• Melee assault/raider style unit for spherebot
• AoE-Outlaw

Current System

This system doesnt lump all the AT together in one factory. However, it leaves spiders/cloakers understaffed and the other bot labs a bit bloated.

Oprhan units:

• Kodachi
• Dominator -- already 2 vlaunch units, no model
• Gremlin
• Morty (esp, model)

New concepts:

• Melee Raider
• Close range Vlaunch weapons
• EMP artillery
• Dirtball artillery
• Loger range Gauss guns (with the new noexplode) (Now on sniper!)
• Slowdown weapons

Vehicle
Fast, Versatile, Basic.

• Weasel
• Gator
• Kodachi?
• Ravager
• Slasher
• Wolverine
• Leveler
• Dedicated AA?
• Core con veh

Hover
Faster, less HP- replaces arm vech as the other flats option.

• Scrubber (raider)
• Scalpel ('janus')
• Flail? (vlaunch arty)
• Halberd (Shielded Assault- Eggify or sprint instead?)
• Mace (Mumbo)
• AA hover
• Penetrator
• Con hover
• Transport?

Tank
Heavy, porcbusters.

• Reaper
• Flak AA
• Pillager
• Banshier
• Tremor
• Diplomat (Move to maackeybot/hovers?))
• Panther
• Egg (Move to hover?)
• Tank constructor

Sphere Bots
Light units with burrowing/AT scouts/bombs.

• Flea
• Spherebot (Raider/scout weight class is low enough?)
• Melee Raider?
• Warrior (Antiswarm)
• Zeus (Assault)
• Tick (Trap mine/Crawling bomb)
• Rocko (Skirmish)
• Hammer (Artillery- Buff?)
• Jethro (AA)
• Rector (Constructor)

Spider/Cloaker
AT spiders and cloaky bots

• Recluse (Skirm)
• Venom (Antiswarm/EMP)
• Archangel (AA)(with jump or AT)
• Skuttle (Anti-Heavy) prehaps use sak's Hole idea. (does it cloak? this unit needs a lot of work)
• Crabe (Heavy assault/skirm)(With AT)
• Spy
• Sniper
• Pyro
• Can
• Gremlin?
• Weaver (Constructor)

Maackey Bots
Wreckfighters, good in very lumpy or obstructed terrain. A bit empty?

• Clogger
• Roach
• Bandit (raider/scout)
• Storm ( Skirmisher)
• Outlaw (antiswarm- AoE from mace?)
• Thug (assault)
• Crasher
• Sumo (assault/antiswarm)
• Freaker

Other factories as below.

Old System

Saktoth: It may be worth considering moving the jumpers into the core bot/'amph' (though whether it keeps its amph becomes dubious) fac, for a full 'maackey' lab. Give thud shield to make it interesting and adapt AK to synergize better with pyro. This makes a full 'wreckfighter/rough terrain' factory, the jumpers being superb wreckfighters due to jump and weapon types. I sort of like having jump and AT be separate. I am not so sure anymore that we should limit each fac so absolutely to one domain, otherwise some maps become dominated by it: each lab can have a couple of options for different terrain (such as AT tick/flea). A truly, fully AT lab gives you a bunch of special-but-weaker units that you dont seem quite sure what to do with, and i really, really dont feel that jumpers and spiders synergize despite the complimenting roles (though i need to play the dedicated AT lab thing more perhaps, it may play out). Factories should synergize and have a theme (IE, rough terrain) but not be 'only special units'.

I just dont think the factory was designed at all with either stealth or amphibiousness in mind. The models are fine, its just the units as we have them are not ideally suited to either of these things, especially since the amph + stealth is just an 'added bonus' and not balanced for ATM (there is no reason why this cant be changed, of course- in fact if we keep them the way they are i think they'll have to be changed a lot).

I dont feel we have enough truly 'cloaky' units that play well to justify its own fac, and a fac built entirely on cloak may get stale. Its kinda more surprising when he gremlins you when that isnt the primary raider he is massing anyway- kinda the whole strength of the gremlin is that it isnt that great a raider in a clean fight, which allows it to be exceptional as a cloaked unit. If it had to carry the raider role for a whole factory it would probably necessarily need the cloaking downplayed. As for radar stealth- this precludes the need for a cloaker entirely (which should be an ability, perhaps even factory specific!). Perhaps we are thinking backwards, and the cloaking fac shouldnt be a full, starting factory: Rather a sort of upgrade module with a handful of units, sniper, spy, gremlin and cloak generator (as a way to 'unlock' that unit). A similiar thing could be done with shields, or even other techs like spiders. Though ultimately, in the current model, if following the change to a 'maackey' factory i still find myself leaning towards a cloak/spider factory.

Needs more playtesting.

As much as i want a fully featured amph lab on water maps, i also dont want any one particular lab to dominate, which i am starting to see is kinda a problem. Perhaps more labs could be given seagoing capacity- spherebots swim on the surface (like torpedoable hovers), stealthbots under the surface, hovers above? Man, i think this amph/hover/sea issue is going to plague us forever, almost want to fill the whole thing in with concrete (though i love ship play). Perhaps we should consider the amph fac purely as a seagoing factory (though the question of whether it will be just as difficult for the hover factory to work on all domains bothers me- though i have more hope there).

Google Frog: I still don't see how you're going to beat the problem of (hover/amph + seamap) > (hover/amph + landmap). You claimed that you can make hover/amph viable on land and not OP on sea so we've got some labs to try that out. I agree that the current bot labs aren't looking all that good although we only tested with fail Pyro. What unit/lab count are we aiming at? We may well have too any potential bot roles to contain them all in 3 factories, I'd rather create 4 factories and flesh them out later than have to shuffle everything.

A cloaking factory with sniper, bot-gremlin, skuttle?, cloaker and spy would fix the factory bloat problem, the cloaky units don't really know where to go so making the factory like an unlockable tech would work. I don't want a vehicle cloaky unit as imo vehicles should be more normal units.

I think the cheapbot lab looks good. The flea might move into it and it has room for 1-2 more units if need be(maybe sniper? It hates wrecks). Flea could also move here although I think Glaive is cheap enough to be a scout and cheap scouts are needed elsewhere.

AT has been barely tested and hasn't been rebalaned at all. With failpyro they were unable to raid although this could also be a problem with pyro weight. Removing pyro and can would leave the raider and assault roles open. As it is all terrain we can do without assault but a raider is needed for this factory to be start viable and as it is almost start viable it would be worth making fully start viable. With a lot of rebalancing Pyro and Flea could have good raiding synergy with flea spreading out and doing wide damage while pyro kills other raiders as well as light defence. Venom is fast enough to be almost a raider.

Amph doesn't need to be all amph. Minumun amph needed is Rouge, Outlaw, AA and Sumo. Thug would be nice as amph but it doesn't have to be. If we're going to have an amph factory these units are best suited for it. It's a bit of an issue because I would like roach and clogger in the factory but they fail at amph.

Vehicle
Google Frog: The vehicle factory is very simple; Mr.D's core models, leave it mostly as-is. Arm VPs lack of anti swarm is a problem which the leveler fixes. Factory is OTA IP free.

• Jeffy/Weasel (maybe give it sprint)
• Gator/Flash (maybe give it sprint)
• Ravager
• Slasher
• Wolverine
• Leveler
• Janus. Google Frog: moved
• Dedicated AA?
• Core con veh

Google Frog: I would like to keep janus in the land vehicle factory as it works well there. It is good against gunships and fills the anti-heavy role somewhat.
Saktoth: Hover basically should be land usable and replace arm vehicle for stumpy/janus. Unless you think that janus is just what core vehicle really needs to flesh it out- gator dose okay vs heavies, esp assaults, due to high DPS and lots of spam.
Google Frog: That returns to the problem of (land viable + sea viable) factory > land viable factory on mixed maps. Gator isn't all that good against assaults either once there are enough assaults, it suffers the dps/area problem of all raiders.
Saktoth: Yes, this is a good chance to change up and diversify the two factories, while not losing some of the uniqueness of them.
Neddie: I'm not sure why you're discussing sides here, so I'm just going to drop a pair of point - you could offer a hovercraft with the Janus weaponry as an anti-swarm element of hovers, retain the role/weapon design and use it to make that factory viable. TheSleepless? might be open to the idea. I also think that dedicated AA should remain in the hover or tank tree, it isn't needed for vehicles as well, though if you wish you can adapt the rather dashing anti-air vehicle Sak made?
Google Frog: If there is a factory without AA the Janus must be in it. Janus is one of the best anti-gunship flex AA units.

Hover
Saktoth: Hovercraft replace Arm Vehicle. Flash/Jeffy replaced with something closer to the hover scout, something inbetween the two that is ok vs inaccurate units but is no longer your main combat unit. Stumpy/Janus operate to replace flash as a combo, perhaps get more speed. Hovers get back their arty as well, further differentiation with wolverine may be desired. Get dedicated AA instead of Samson (less crap than current hover AA). Ideally sub-vehicle slope tolerance, or some kind of slopemod to make them even worse on hills than vech. Might also fit a few 'orphan' units, such as the gremlin, mumbo, or panther, tick, roach, skuttle.
Google Frog: I don't know if we want to just make Veh = Core. Hover = Arm. It might be a good idea to make them reasonably fast compared to vehicles but worse in combat. This creates a meaningful difference between the factories and makes them similarly balanced on sea/land maps and land maps(mobility). Mumbo or banisher might be good to add to offset the lack of antiswarm although Janus is very much like banisher. Also what to do about arty?
Use thesleeplesses models for hover. Which ones has he remodelled.
Do we even need hover? This factory is looking as identical as current arm/core vehicles. It also seems too powerful if it can go everywhere and not be hit by torps. We could just leave sea at air/ships/amph.
Saktoth: Sleepless has done hover scout, and i believe a missile and assault hover. It should be relatively easy to adapt these basic chassis into new units. Remember, all we need for a whole factory is a couple of high quality chassis. Torpedoes can hit hovers if we like. IMO, since the tank factory goes back to 4 kinds of arty, we could afford to pinch one.
Google Frog: This factory is looking a bit identical to vehicle. We could give it a general ability(such as excessive speed, but that would break comet). One of the long ranged arty from tank wouldn't really fit in hover as the arty is slow and hovers are fast. Also anything with decent range becomes the best coastal bombardment ever which is more of a ship role. Hover coastal bombardment is just too flexible.

• Scout Hover ('flash')
• Stumpy
• AA hover
• Antiswarm hover
• Con hover
• Transport?

Tank
Google Frog: Tank would not change much. Roles that were removed by diplomat and Luger removal would be re-filled.

• Reaper
• Flak AA
• Pillager
• Banshier
• Mumbles, Use the new Arm AA model
• Tremor
• Diplomat
• Penetrator
• Panther
• Egg?
• Arm or Core con tank

Bots in general

Pxtl: imho, throw out the old bot-fac unit lists and rebuild them from scratch. 4 bot-factories: Walker, Jumper, All-Terrain, and Amphib - look at the "bot" list below and notice that there are 11 units and the only units with any "magic" are the Roach/Tick/Flea cloaking. Break that stuff up a bit. Bring in a Strider into one or two factories.

• Spy (Anti-heavy, scout, spotter) amphib lab?
• Sniper (Anti-heavy, stealth) too heavy for walker and role doesn't fit amphib.
• Cloaky bot to replace Gremlin? Maybe Spherebot. Looks like it can go in amphib lab

Google Frog: I would like to keep these 3 units. They would fit very well into a cloaky factory but there doesn't seem to be one currently.
Saktoth; IMO, they can all be spiders. Cloaky spiders.
Neddie: Oh, you know, E&E almost had that. I too would like all of these units to remain.
Google Frog: The Spider factory is rather full already. I think the above 3 units would work best (but not that well) in the amphibious factory. Amphib is a stealthy ability and it also gives them a reason to be built on land.
Licho: E&E was HORRIBLE. You could not tell units apart. That was my main complaint. And people are already complaining they cannot tell sphere units apart (con and peewee etc).

Bots
Google Frog: I think this is the minimum roles that the walker factory should have. It is a generalist factory with low weight skewed towards expansion and raiding so that it is easily startable.
Saktoth: You're mixing the core and arm bots here? I think they should mostly be kept in different factories, to keep the look coherent-by-factory.
Google Frog: Swapped spherebot and bandit. The problem is that basically all the models except Spherebot and Bandit are tied to their firing type. Rocko/Rouge would look silly trying to fire at a different angle, Warrior has 2 identical guns and Outlaw 2 different guns.
Neddie: I personally would just have this entire factory be styled around the Spherebot, though at present that isn't possible given what is modelled. This lineup looks solid.

• Spherebot (Raider/scout weight class is low enough?)
• Warrior (Antiswarm)
• Zeus (Assault)
• Tick (Trap mine/Crawling bomb) (not all terrain)
• Rocko (Skirmish)
• Hammer (Artillery)
• Jethro (AA)
• Rector (Constructor)

All Terrain Walkers
Google Frog: I think this is a reasonable line-up for an All terrain factory. AT also needs to be viable on flat areas. Jump and AT from both Arm and Core complement each other nicely. Arm has Skirm, Antiswarm, scouting and mines whereas Core has Raider, Assault and Anti-heavy. Combining makes sense and yields a full factory.
Neddie: It would be interesting to make a single chassis, all-terrain, and then adapt it to both the Archangel and the Can roles. I actually think the Termite would be a nicer unit than the Can in the interim, though having an Assault be entirely all-terrain might be a problem.
Google Frog: Can has been remodelled though and is a unique unit.

• Flea (Scout)
• Roach(Trap mine/Crawling bomb) (jump? cloak+jump = op?)
• Clogger (with jump)
• Recluse (Skirm)
• Venom (Antiswarm/EMP)
• Pyro (Raider)
• Can (Assault, can be anti-heavy)
• Archangel (AA)(with jump or AT)
• Skuttle (Anti-Heavy) prehaps use sak's Hole idea. (does it cloak? this unit needs a lot of work)
• Crabe (Heavy assault/skirm)(With AT)
• Weaver (Constructor)

Amphib Bots
Saktoth: Very possibly, the core bots could be moved here almost wholesale.
Google Frog: I don't like that idea.
Saktoth: Mixing arm/core bots into land and amphib will make the labs incoherent with eachother. Pick one art style for both, we can switch around the stats if we like.
Neddie: It may be worth noting that some roles already modeled for one or the other side might be better eventually remodeled for visual coherence - you can always go back and do more. I think the factories need to be solidified and balanced, then you can worry about the aesthetics.
Google Frog: This can work as a stealth lab as well. It may be a good idea to give all units in it stealth as well as taking the AT con's cloak+stealth for the pincy. I also want a gremlin replacement here. I worry that making bandit stealth will nerf this factory's raiding too much so we could add another unit.

• Bandit (raider/scout) Might cloak? Gives it an excuse to be worse than bots.
• Storm ( Skirmisher) Storm would work better on coastlines, might give it torpedoe when underwater
• Outlaw (antiswarm) maybe give it short range torpedo.
• Thud (assault)
• Spy (Anti-heavy, spotter)
• Sniper (Anti-heavy, spotter, Arty)
• some kind of AA (all Free IP AA bot models used up already) Without (Underwater -> Air firing) amph is very vulnerable to Prec Bombers.
• something to replace gremlin
• Sumo (assault/antiswarm) think about it. Heatray works at short range and sea provides cover until defences are reached. Could even fire from underwater. (use Jugg model)(Neddie: Bubbles & Steam for extra visual appeal!)
• Pinchy (Constructor)

Google Frog: Some units (raider, skirm, assault, riot) could be easily swapped with bot factory. Added Spy and Sniper because they don't really have anywhere to go and this factory has a lower unit count than others. Making this a stealth and amphib factory will increase it's viability on land.

Mech
Google Frog: as mech is built by the specops plane we might want to keep the unit count low.
Also I think specops plane shouldn't be able to build most Walkers.

• Scarab
• Razor or Karg
• Catapult
• Bantha
• Orcone.
• Vanguard.
• Commander with Dgun.

Neddie: I'd get rid of the Orcone and have the Jugg as well as the Bantha. The Orcone fills a role which may not be necessary, which in my opinion doesn't add anything.
Google Frog: Looking at the low unit count here I think we can afford Jugg, Bantha and Orcone. Orcone is really only a FFA unit (as is jugg and bantha for that matter). Jugg may need removing as a model for Sumo though.

Gunships
Google Frog: 1 Faction would be good for gunships as we'd be able to flesh out the factory and highlight unit differences. Rapair could be re-added as a more expensive slow gunship and as the best gunship AA.
Neddie: Definitely include the Blastwing, Bladewing, Banshee... I agree with the Blackdawn(Brawler), but like Sak I question the need for a Heavy Assault Gunship like the Krow. Don't forget the transports...
Google Frog: Rapier is worth keeping if there's a model for it. It is a nice medium weight gunship with AA capability, stats can be changed to give it a place as Blackdawn is a bit niche.

• Bladewing
• Blastwing?
• Banshee
• Rapier? as more aa-y, or give banshee better AA capacity (does it have spherical range?) (use PL helicopter model)
• Blackdawn (much more interesting than Brawler. Use Brawler Model?)
• Krow? (Saktoth: never been a fan of this unit too heavy, Google Frog: it's an ok unit even if a little annoying to play against. May as well keep it if it's free.)
• Light Transport.
• Heavy (armed) Transport. Which type?
• Crane

Fixed Wing
Google Frog: Fixed wing is basically identical between sides. Nothing much would be changed except for a few extra roles for Core. We could use Arm fixed wing with hurricane(for awesome fire) then use Shadow model for Hurricane. This would also fix some Hawk lasers vs Vamp missile inbalance.
Neddie: Advanced scout aircraft as well?
Google Frog: A poll decided that some people only see a need for a heavy scout aircraft. There is no light scout.

• Multi Role Fighter
• AA Fighter
• Prec Bomber
• Scout Plane
• Hurricane
• Stiletto
• Liche?
• Crane

Sea
Google Frog: Sea can be properly fleshed out with many units. I don't know the specifics of sea balance.
Neddie: The lack of discussion here disturbs me, even more because I'm unable to offer any real input. I think given a single factory, you'll be looking at nine or ten vessels, but it might be better to have two factories... the first has single/dual role units and the second has multi/super role units including some NOTA vessels.
Google Frog: This is really saks area. He has the most ideas for sea. I'll try putting something in though.

• Light Scout (/w AA?)
• Medium weight AA
• Corv (raider)
• Sub
• Destroyer (arty/little anti-sub)
• Anti Sub Ship. (heavy or light, idk)
• Floating Banisher ship, reduce range to sub arty
• Floating HP (Cruiser)
• Floating 4 Pillagers (battleship)
• Floating Merl + repair pad + drone (carrier)
• Tacnuke sub? (Google Frog: is this unit needed? it is much like carrier)
• Arty sub? (again, needed?)
• Conship

Google Frog: I think all the above are OTA except a light AA boat, destroyer, carrier and battleship

Buildings

Detailed buildlist for constructors.

Economy

• Mex, arm or core. Either one(vote maybe)? Saktoth: Core, but with a drill instead of a swirly thing, and with an open top for cool floating heat effect ala arm mex.
• Wind, arm and core are the same model anyway.
• Solar, core is less OTA looking. Could use it Saktoth: But not as good texture.
• Fusion, arm. It's remodelled
• Adv Fusion, arm. It's remodelled
• Geothermal, use prude model. Both normal geos are OTA
• Adv Geothermal, both are non-ota.
• Tidal, both are OTA. Neddie: Wasn't somebody working on one?

• Nano turret (counts as econ, makes BP) Either arm or core. Both are remodelled.
• Metal Storage. Both are Non-OTA but both are ugly.
• Energy Storage. Both are remodelled, maybe change the arm e store texture and use it for metal.

Neddie: Might be better to discard the Logos one, then simply copy/enlarge the Nova one and retexture it.

Factories

• Walker Factory
• All Terrain Factory
• Amphibious factory. Don't use coralab. It will stick above water.
• Core Vehicle Plant. Remodelled.
• Hover Factory
• Tank Factory. Remodelled?? Mr.D may have.
• Selene(mech 'factory'). Remodelled
• Gunship
• Fixed Wing
• Shipyard, OTA. Is nota SY ota though?

Saktoth: I plan on making a single robot-arm thing that can be used for all factories, adding some wheels/robot parts, etc and changing the config slightly for differentiation.

Ground Turrets
Google Frog: I think Arm llts inferiority to Core llt is a big problem that would be fixed by merging them. Turret merge also provides enough models to make AOE and anti bomber AA. Core's basic advantage against gunships and disadvantage against fixed wing is another problem that would be fixed.

• LLT, probably Arm to prevent overshoot Neddie: Core model, Arm functionality? Google Frog: Either, I want to use beam laser with about 90-100 weight class
• HLT, probably Arm to prevent overshoot
• Antiswarm, I'd be inclined to use Scorcher because Stardust is good at long range.

Saktoth: Stardust is cooler, we are using the model regardless. Dont get model confused with balance.
Google Frog: I agree but it rapes short range Skirmishers. I thought you were referring to it's firing as the cool thing because of course we can swap models. The firring rapes Skirmishers.

• Newton
• Faraday
• Pit Bull and Viper are OTA

Google Frog:  http://www.unituniverse.com/?p=u&v=1995 UU says pit bull is TAEC.
Neddie: New model eventually would be better anyway. Get a confirmation on TAEC Pitbull?

• DDM is OTA
• Anni

Neddie: Are both needed?
Google Frog: DDM and anni are both very different units.

• Depth charge Launcher. Both OTA, maybe use an unused turret model.
• Torp Launcher, both OTA
• Adv Torp Launcher, both OTA

Air Turrets
Saktoth: Rather than more dedicated AA id rather more multirole AA.

• Missile turret. Core is not OTA.
• Packo and Razor could be differentiated. Packo could get AOE and Razor could get teal AA lasers for accuracy.

Saktoth: Probably better to just make the chainsaw less suck.
Google Frog: What happens to Flak and Razor? Do you think there's room for 2 anti gunships?
Saktoth: Actually, id rather just keep the flak, since its remodelled, and take the razor turrets from the aa ship.

• Chainsaw
• Flak
• Long Range AA

Intel/Shield

• Radar Tower. Remodelled. Both arm and core.
• Adv Radar Tower. Remodelled

Google Frog: I think radar tower should be core radar and adv radar should be arm radar. Arm radar dish is very large and core radar lacks differentiation between adv and normal

• Jammer Tower. Non-OTA.
• Shield Tower. Non-OTA.

Intel/Shield
not in buildlist but morph only.

• Radar Mobile. Only Vehicle radar is remodelled. It will have to do. Better if it's bot though.
• Jammer Mobile. OTA
• Shield Mobile. OTA?

'Epic' Buildings

• EMP tacnuke. Cavedog
• Core tacnuke. Non-OTA.

Google Frog: both tacnukes are different, it's worth keeping 2. Maybe we could keep 1 with the abitity to stock/fire either EMP or Damage though.
Neddie: Merged would be nice, using the current Logos model.
Google Frog: Does anyone know if 2 seperate stockpiles and independently fire-able weapons is possible on one unit?

• Bertha. Non-OTA.
• Core nuke. Non-OTA.
• Antinuke, both are OTA
• Starlight. new model

Google Frog: I like starlight a lot more than meteors.
Neddie: I prefer meteors, but either way, I don't find the role terribly useful.
Google Frog: FFA building. They're needed just for that.

Misc Buildings

• Mine. No idea, probably OTA though
• Air Repair Pad. Both are smashed together OTA models.
• Terraform, the model is OTA but it's the wreck model. Ofc there will be block, block2, trench, trench2, level and ramp

OTA IP models

See ModelNotes