Art (#4) - Model Suggestions (#48) - Message List
I'm a long time TA player, and I just started playing Spring a few weeks ago. At first I was not particularly impressed (I started with Balanced Annihilation), as I am quite happy with TA's engine, but I could not easily get games going, so I wanted to branch out. I was a little disappointed to see that the mods that people play are based off of Absolute Annihilation, which in my mind was always an abomination. It took from Uberhack, and added in a ton of stupid and ridiculous units, and then decided to try to balance them.
In some ways the forms of Absolute Annihilation have been balanced, and mods like Balanced Annihilation have integrated the stupid unit ideas in acceptable (though not great ways).
So when I tried Complete Annihilation out for the first time, I was extremely impressed for a few reasons. First off, many of its visuals are amazing. Second, it adds tons of features that TA never had, unlike many Spring mods that don't really bring in anything new on top of what was possible in TA. I'm excited to see what talented modders can really do with this, and I want to lend my hand to try to help.
My major gripe with CA, from what I've seen, is that its based on Absolute Annihilation. It seems like people have gotten used to its mediocrity and accept its crappy units as if they are Cavedog originals, and don't need to be revised. As a result, you have CA with amazing evolva models, but still using the fkn Banshee, one of the first 3rd party units ever. (As a side note, the Pack0 is using bits and pieces from the Arm Arch, made around the same time, and looking like a piece of crap). Seriously, it was made like 8 years ago, and it shows.
Since the move to Spring, I feel like the OTA modding community has been largely ignored. Outside of the Evolva models getting put together for Spring, I feel like the OTA community FAR outshines the Spring community as far as modeling goes, and I'd really like to see some of the good models come in as replacements for the crap here. I wanted to offer my OTA modding experience to suggest some replacement models for you guys here.
I'll start with a list of models that you guys should be embarrassed for using :P
Venom (All Terrain Construction Kbot)
Tick (EMP Bomb- Seriously, it has a gun on its head)
Janus (Miserably textured)
Shellshocker
Banshee (Olllld... much better options out there)
Blastwing (Bleh)
Bladewing (Doublebleh)
Outlaw (This one isn't that bad, but you could do better)
Pinchy (This was an Arm unit... now its a Core one with no texture changes... Model is fine, but its just really weird to have a lobster in the middle of a TA game)
Wolverine (Its not that its a terrible model, its just that with the high trajectory, the model/animation makes absolutely no sense)
Detection Centers (Whatever theyre called- the ones that pick up on cloaked units)
Tremor (I don't know why this unit really exists, as it serves same basic purpose as massing artillery, but seeing as it does exist, why not find a decent model for it)
Adv Fusions- There are much better models out there
Adv Storage-
Shield Generators- Again, better models out there that aren't Galactic Gates Stardust- EMG tower (Devastator model) I can get you a better model for this unit, but seriously, this unit shouldn't even exist, you already have a few medium powered towers for arm.
Consul- Not a terrible model, just doesn't look like a TA Unit, and I have a better one
Twilight- OOgleh
Spider- Isn't there an evolva spider model?
Almost all of Tech3 is bleh in my opinion, but that is as much a model problem as it is a lack of creativity on the parts of the AA folks.
I don't mean to criticize too harshly, cause I really like CA so far. I will offer up alternatives in this thread in the upcoming days, and in some cases where I can't find a better model somewhere, I'll give a shot at cooking one up!
-Boog
EDIT:
http://www.caspring.org/ticket/103
Uploaded a few models that I can take credit for... I still have suggestions for others, but these are the ones that I've personally made.
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Message #153
It seems like people have gotten used to its mediocrity and accept its crappy units as if they are Cavedog originals, and don't need to be revised.
Yes, we have lots of terrible models. In addition to those you mentioned, the Stiletto, the Krow and the Liche spring to my mind. No unit is sacred though, we don't hesitate to overhaul or remove even Cavedog units if they don't have a real role or overlap too much with other units.
Since the move to Spring, I feel like the OTA modding community has been largely ignored.
Yes, I never was familiar with the OTA community unfortunately. I think the other CA contributors in the same situation. Our only point of contact is Unit Universe. Until recently nearly all the artists in the Spring community worked on non-TA mods, so on our side there has been little progress in TA mods since AA, maybe with the exception of NOTA. We could learn a lot from your experience.
Venom (All Terrain Construction Kbot)
Ugly, agreed.
Tick (EMP Bomb- Seriously, it has a gun on its head)
The black thing? It doesn't look like a gun at all to me o.O
Janus (Miserably textured)
Agreed. Saktoth improved the texture considerably, but it remains an ugly unit.
Shellshocker
Yes, ugly.
Banshee (Olllld... much better options out there)
Yuck.
Blastwing (Bleh)
Bladewing (Doublebleh)
I kinda like them.
Outlaw (This one isn't that bad, but you could do better)
Agreed.
Pinchy (This was an Arm unit... now its a Core one with no texture changes... Model is fine, but its just really weird to have a lobster in the middle of a TA game)
It's cute :)
Wolverine (Its not that its a terrible model, its just that with the high trajectory, the model/animation makes absolutely no sense)
Absolutely.
Detection Centers (Whatever theyre called- the ones that pick up on cloaked units)
They work by detecting the seismic signature of units. The models are nothing extraordinary but they make sense, imho.
Tremor (I don't know why this unit really exists, as it serves same basic purpose as massing artillery, but seeing as it does exist, why not find a decent model for it)
Yeah, in CA it's pretty useless.
Adv Fusions- There are much better models out there
Must have them!
Adv Storage
Yes, boring.
Shield Generators- Again, better models out there that aren't Galactic Gates
Yes. Saktoth improved them, but not much can be achieved by starting with the gates.
Stardust- EMG tower (Devastator model) I can get you a better model for this unit, but seriously, this unit shouldn't even exist, you already have a few medium powered towers for arm.
I disagree. The LLT is too weak to do much and the HLT has too low a rate of fire for killing swarms. The Stardust is the best turret to stop flashspam. The tech 2 Pitbull might be useless, though, in their current form.
Consul- Not a terrible model, just doesn't look like a TA Unit, and I have a better one
Replaced with yours :)
Twilight- OOgleh
Yes.
Spider- Isn't there an evolva spider model?
Not sure, I'll check.
Almost all of Tech3 is bleh in my opinion, but that is as much a model problem as it is a lack of creativity on the parts of the AA folks.
Yeah. It's a bit boring and not very useful in CA at the moment, except for Karganeths and Krogs.
I don't mean to criticize too harshly, cause I really like CA so far. I will offer up alternatives in this thread in the upcoming days, and in some cases where I can't find a better model somewhere, I'll give a shot at cooking one up!
Yay! Wow, those models look great. I've imported the armmarv and I love it! I'm in the process importing the rest. Thanks!
Overall, I mostly agree with you.
quantum11/02/07 14:07:37-
Message #155
Venom (All Terrain Construction Kbot)
Ugly, agreed.
Pinchy (This was an Arm unit... now its a Core one with no texture changes... Model is fine, but its just really weird to have a lobster in the middle of a TA game)
It's cute :)
I would like to use your model for arm and giving the venom to core. The Pinchy looks ... ugly and ways to powerful for a t1 con bot (iirc LLTA use them as t4 con bots!).
Banshee (Olllld... much better options out there)
Yuck.
I don't like bashees at all, t1 gunships are a fail itself (as long as core don't get something equiv.).
Blastwing (Bleh) Bladewing (Doublebleh)
I kinda like them.
I like the Bladewing, but the Blastwing looks like a flounder (imo).
Outlaw (This one isn't that bad, but you could do better)
Agreed.
I like it (looks ways better than the warrior).
Detection Centers (Whatever theyre called- the ones that pick up on cloaked units)
They work by detecting the seismic signature of units. The models are nothing extraordinary but they make sense, imho.
Imo they fit, too.
Tremor (I don't know why this unit really exists, as it serves same basic purpose as massing artillery, but seeing as it does exist, why not find a decent model for it)
Yeah, in CA it's pretty useless.
I use them, they are very powerfull against core t1 shields (-> short reload time -> less time to regen shield).
Adv Fusions- There are much better models out there
Must have them!
I like the core one, also the sphere makes it very easy to make a special effect for it with LUPS :)
Arm fusions at all doesn't look pretty (imo).Stardust- EMG tower (Devastator model) I can get you a better model for this unit, but seriously, this unit shouldn't even exist, you already have a few medium powered towers for arm.
I disagree. The LLT is too weak to do much and the HLT has too low a rate of fire for killing swarms. The Stardust is the best turret to stop flashspam. The tech 2 Pitbull might be useless, though, in their current form.
Yeah, the new anti swarm towers are a great addition to CA. Note: they make defenders and dragon claws useless. We should remove those.
Consul- Not a terrible model, just doesn't look like a TA Unit, and I have a better one
Replaced with yours :)
Imo assist units like farks & freaker should look totaly different from their full con units. Your unit looks to similar like the con veh, so you would always need to glance twice at it to differ them. Also I like the consul model, it doesn't look so square as the old TA models and fit this way much better in the new high poly units.
Twilight- OOgleh
Yes.
I think as long as it is cloaked the model doesn't matter.
jk11/02/07 16:59:31-
Message #158
I would like to use your model for arm and giving the venom to core. The Pinchy looks ... ugly and ways to powerful for a t1 con bot (iirc LLTA use them as t4 con bots!).
I was planning to make all-terrain units an Arm specificity, while Core would have an advantage in amphibious units. This means that the Termite would be retired.
I don't like bashees at all, t1 gunships are a fail itself (as long as core don't get something equiv.).
Core will.
I like the Bladewing, but the Blastwing looks like a flounder (imo).
These units are a problem for me. I like the synergies between the two, it would be too bad to separate them. Yet I'd like to make kamikaze units a core specificity and EMP weapons an Arm specificity. Yes, the Invader will go. We could give an Emp bomb, Commando style, to the Sharpshooter.
I use them, they are very powerful against core t1 shields (-> short reload time -> less time to regen shield).
Fair enough.
Note: they make defenders and dragon claws useless.
Defenders? You mean the missile tower? Yeah, Dragon's Claws are pretty useless at the moment, but they should get a breath of fresh air with a Zeus style weapon.
quantum11/03/07 11:15:24 -
Message #159
Imo assist units like farks & freaker should look totaly different from their full con units. Your unit looks to similar like the con veh, so you would always need to glance twice at it to differ them.
They would be made smaller than normal construction units.
quantum11/03/07 20:18:26
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Message #156
The pinchy looks awesome, lobster or otherwise. The Tremor also looks totally fine, its just a Buzzsaw mounted on a truck, and it strikes the fear of god into the hearts of your enemies. Its a cool unit IMO.
The Janus and Shellshocker have been retextured and IMO look fine now.
The Blastwing was an origional model (Though i admit, i didnt put much work into it. :P) and the bladewing looks fine considering how tiny it is.
I agree on the outlaw (crappy animation), Banshee and Venom, and that the Wolverines animation doesnt fit its trajectory.
Although ive retextured the Advanced fusions to not have that blue gunk all over them, they arent great models, thats true. The Adv storages are also silly looking, yeah.
As a general note, if you want to check out the really top-notch modelling going on in Spring, take a look at some of the non-TA mods and some of the s3o models, such as some of the better stuff in the WIP thread on the modelling forum. The OTA mods are made mostly by people who have no idea how to (or cant be bothered) model new units.
saktoth11/03/07 05:22:32
